any takers?.
Momma-Tossed-Me:
Wow this is a timley thread!
My answer was:
'Affirmative. Still being used. Field service related or not, it is a good filler. Then to the donut shop!'
Then this morning at the KH field service meeting its' announced that the Feb 2011 KM says to chuck the daily text. No more daily text at meetings for field service. Alot of guessing as to why!
i was at a 2 day circuit assembly this weekend and i was surprised at how many times mention was made directly or indirectly reminding those in attendance (1,600) of the need to give $$$.
even in the soliloquies or skits they seemed to work in the need to give $$$.. it made me wonder if the society is having 'cash flow' problems and hence is desparate for cash.
over the years that i've attended conventions and assemblies the need to give $$$ has been subtle (imo), til now.
Aussie Oz:
'so as to not appear like a cheapskate i'll bet they donate considerable amounts to boot.'
I would say that is the GB's scheming plan.
Debator:
'Either it is okay for a church from the early Christians onwards to accept donations or it isn't. Biblically it is completely okay.'
I don't think anyone on this board will argue that Bliblically it is completely okay to voluntarily donate (it is no body elses business but ours). Without a doubt, absolutely it is OKAY!
However, how many times does an organization that proclaims that it has God as its' financial backer & that the day it has to beg for money.....that is the day to hang it up. How many times does it have to remind all to give?
You have various speakers in their parts offering reminders, either as part of their manuscript or by way of skit or demonstration...... to give. Then you have the assembly account servant before the noon break going over the accounts report (I mean a detailed report & he highlights the exaggerated deficit). Then you go into the lobby where you see 'money changers' with their check and cash cardboard donation boxes ++++ the debit/credit charge card tables.
It makes you wonder are we their to be uplifted and receive free life saving knowledge or does the GB want us there to give $$$$$$ because we (not Jah) are their backers, after all!
Hmmm!
it should have been our ca tomorrow and sunday but it has been cancelled because of the weather.
we had a light sprinkling of snow today but it has frozen and the roads around hayes bridge are treacherous.. the ca two weeks ago was cancelled for the same reason and some of those congregations were scheduled to join us this weekend.. guess i will just have to have a lie in this weekend!.
george.
Desi:
'They began with debit/credit card use for donations2 or 3 years ago here in Austria (at the DC)'
Likewise here in the States. However, it was a....... 'by the way we now accept ......' sort of way, subtle.
Apparently not enough were reponding so the GB decided to 'increase the volume' so to speak. To where I was shocked at their agressive approach at this recent 2 day assembly.
i was at a 2 day circuit assembly this weekend and i was surprised at how many times mention was made directly or indirectly reminding those in attendance (1,600) of the need to give $$$.
even in the soliloquies or skits they seemed to work in the need to give $$$.. it made me wonder if the society is having 'cash flow' problems and hence is desparate for cash.
over the years that i've attended conventions and assemblies the need to give $$$ has been subtle (imo), til now.
debator:
'Interesting use of current culture changes to imply wrongdoing on the part of Witnesses.'
'Will you still be trying to sell this argument when we use credit cards to the complete exclusion of paper money and coinage?'
Good point. But we are not there yet.
Many an economist say that while plastic is indeed popular and getting more and more use, check and cash will continue to be high on the list for making day to day purchases in the days to come. They mention numerous reasons why.
One thing economists do caution with regard to plastic is that it is a sure way of getting into trouble financially. And that is why it will always be competing with cash and check writing. People are beginning to learn the advantages of cash and check writing over plastic in this regard.
So if that is the WTBTS's thinking (that cash and check writing are going by way of the dinosaur) then they may be jumping the gun and showing a less and less reliance on their Chief Supporter, Jehovah. Why do I say that?
The Society has always prided itself in 'not being part of the world'. It has often quoted Jesus @ Mat 10:8 'You received free give free' as evidence that they are separate, different & unique from other religions when it comes to money. The Dec 1980 KM on page 3 par 2 after mentioning that the org has Jehovah as its' financial backer states in part..... 'that the organization will never beg nor petition men for support.........our preaching work has been supported in large measure by unsolicited and wholly voluntary contributions'. More recent articles (Watchtower 11/1/07 'The Silver Is Mine and The Gold Is Mine' pg 17) assure the R & F of this same commitment.
What I witnessed at the assemble hall speaks volumes of the GB's need, want & greed for money whether it be in the form of cash, check or debit/credit card! Even if it means the R & F going into debt. They might as well (as was mentioned) put up an ATM machine. Maybe they will!
it should have been our ca tomorrow and sunday but it has been cancelled because of the weather.
we had a light sprinkling of snow today but it has frozen and the roads around hayes bridge are treacherous.. the ca two weeks ago was cancelled for the same reason and some of those congregations were scheduled to join us this weekend.. guess i will just have to have a lie in this weekend!.
george.
St George of England:
When and If you attend; I'd be interested to know at the assembly hall you visit, if they are pushing debit/credit card use for donations also. If you can (wouldn't want to put you in a compromising situation) take a pic or two.
Thank You
any takers?.
Affirmative. Still being used. Field service related or not, it is a good filler. Then to the donut shop!
i was at a 2 day circuit assembly this weekend and i was surprised at how many times mention was made directly or indirectly reminding those in attendance (1,600) of the need to give $$$.
even in the soliloquies or skits they seemed to work in the need to give $$$.. it made me wonder if the society is having 'cash flow' problems and hence is desparate for cash.
over the years that i've attended conventions and assemblies the need to give $$$ has been subtle (imo), til now.
Butterflyleia85: 'I don't remember Credit Cards being used... '
They are now! Visa, Mastercard, American Express, Discover Card.....Cha Ching, Cha Ching.
There is a talk on the program entitled 'Do Not Be Contaminated By The Traveling Merchants' based on Rev 18:11. The speaker cautions the audience about over spending and materialism...... yada yada yada. Then to enforce that thought a sister walks on stage as though she has just opened her credit card statement and is alarmed when she sees that its' maxed out $$$$. She is talking to herself out loud (audience listening) how she is worried, how she needs to curtail her spending and the like. It ends with her being determined to cut up her cards as a way to stop the excessive debt. The speaker has some concluding comments (end of talk).
Then you walk out to the lobby & what do you see? Signs on tables, big as day, 'Debit/Credit Card Donations'. That is hypocrisy 101!
another thing my jw friend says to me when i question the wt is, "what would their motivation be?
they're so humble and no-one gets paid except a basic living allowance for the workers at bethel.
they're not like those other rotten 'ministries' whose leaders get paid a lot of money, etc.".
InterestedOne: 'Any other ideas?'
Pride.
I have a long time friend, John, who is a 3rd or 4th generation JW. He and his wife have 3 adult children. One is marginally in, one wants nothing to do w/ the org but still in and the 3rd is d'fd (no intention of returning). All 3 are out on their own. Our children also grew up together.
John is extensively used in the circuit and is considered 'a pillar and support of the truth'. His wife is the 'stand by her man' type of wife. She is often heard saying proudly..... 'Watchtower this, Watchtower that'......
My wife has often said that it is sad because though they appear to be 'rich' spiritually (what we think is a facade), yet their children pretty much do not want anything to do with the organization, as a result they don't do much with their kids. John & his wife really do not have anything to show for their hard work all these years in the organization. This scenario can be duplicated many times over with other couples we know who are our age.
I have often wondered about our friends: What is John & his wife's motivation and how do they benefit? Same question you (InterestedOne) ask about the WT leadership.
The answer IMO across the board is PRIDE!
Another explanation can be found in an answer many Catholoics give when asked...'Why do Catholics stay?' The answer......
'I'm still a Catholic because I was born Catholic, raised Catholic, educated Catholic and like being Catholic. I'll never stop being Catholic, despite that many of the current leaders of the institutional church are corrupt thugs, from the parish right up to the Vatican.'
I'm sure the Mormons would say something along the same lines.
By the way: Good topic!
their claims that they err because they are only guided by spirit but not inspired??.
thursday, december 16. i shall make you have insight and instruct you in the way you should go.-ps.
32:8.. what makes it possible for the faithful and discreet slave to provide timely, nutritious spiritual food?
The above daily text comments are so hilarious!
so my mother calls me on thanksgiving thursday and tells me about a fellow in her kh that i knew quite well.
he grew a beard years ago and stopped field recruiting, but kept going to the kh several times a month as his wife was still active.
the elders never really tried to show concern for his depression, but always bugged him about the beard.
Thank you Blondie:
What a bunch of 'lap dog' elders. (I was late for work)
I like that expression. It certainly describes well many a wimpy elder that we have in the org!
